Tuesday, 31 May 2011

5 Points Model Management - Liars and Charlatans!

Charlatans! Liars! Bastardos!

I am going to start this post by saying that while this does contain facts and emails, you should make up your own minds regarding this studio. I have strong opinions and feel that I am correct about this site, but some of this is personal opinion based on the information made available to me. I am confident you will draw the same conclusions though.

Remember I said in this post there are some sleazy studios out there pretending to be actual modelling agencies or cam sites that will give you an amazing rate of pay? Well this studio here is a fantastic example of what to avoid and look out for.

5 Points have been doing the rounds on Twitter and were foolish enough to approach me through one of their agents. Clearly they have never read my blog, or they have and thought I would just forget all my principles and be all for joining without doing any research. Anyways! Lets break down all the lies on their site, or rather their carefully worded phrases that promise everything and deliver nothing.

Starting with their home page they are essentially making out they are an adult modelling company when they are clearly just a cam studio. They say they can help you reach your goals and that they will assess and develop your talent, but the big alarm bells here are that there are no pages regarding any other form of adult modelling or talent on their site. DING DING DING CAM STUDIO ALERT!

"A large percentage of our models decide that they're quite content webcam modeling and don't pursue other jobs." - Is that because you are just a cam studio perhaps and have no other positions available?

It's very refreshing to work with an honest, non-sleazy adult modeling company. I can't even tell you how nice it is not to be hit on by my manager or get jipped out of my money! Thanks 5 Points! - Brittany J, San Hose, CA

Thank you 5 Points for posting what I am sure is a fake testimonial. Her name and location rhyme for fucks sake! She's a freaking Dr. Seuss character "Miss Brittany J from San Hose that's in CA!" And FYI "Brittany J" of course you haven't been hit on by your manager! You never see him because they have no listed offices on their web page! Or maybe you are one of the admin team and were just letting us know you are OK? Either way thanks for that useless nugget of info. As most of us work from home it's pretty irrelevant.

Models who prove themselves as expert entertainers may be invited to build an online portfolio, their own website, attend casting events, and much more. Whatever your modeling goals may be, let us open the door for you.
 
You "MAY" be invited. What a fab little word "may" is. So ambiguous, giving you hope and a promise that something could happen, but inevitably with this site it won't. I can see absolutely no evidence of  girls furthering their careers after searching their site. Surely if they are saying they have the potential to do this they would have some links or pages showing other girls successes? After all nothing manipulates people into signing away all their personal details like seeing other people who have made it worth while. Sadly there is no such incentive on 5 Points site.

In fact I will condense this article and what I am trying to say about 5 Points Model Agency into one word for you now... Dickheads.

You absolutely do not need a manager unless you are a porn star. This site makes no promises regarding increasing current earnings, social networking or actual doors into the adult industry like real modelling or porn so why bother? It is a cleverly worded front for a studio who will do nothing but take your money. They are charlatans, and you should kill your potential application with fire and get the fuck away!

The site are a studio for several actual camsites. The main one being Video Secrets: Webcam4money also known as VS Media. They simulcast the models over about 15 or so different websites, many with rather obscure names. These sites have never cropped up in my google searches so I'm not sure they really have the amazing traffic they claim. You can sign up direct with this site, but I haven't heard back from my email to them yet. 3 working days and counting...

Listed below are the fabulous places you can work, and nearly all of them are VS media sites with the same cookie cutter appearance and text, just with different colour schemes.They show this add on their FAQ page. 5 Point are a studio for these sites, as after visiting each one I have found it is easy to sign up with them all directly.


They also mentioned Playboy Live as well which surprised me as I would not have though Playboy would use outsourcing to get camgirls. They would surely want only the best of the best and it would be an accolade to be chosen by that site, right?

Wrong.

You can join up with playboylive.com here directly, but 5 Points are a Studio sourcing models for them. The site looks pretty amateurish for Playboy but it does say Beta under the main header so could look very different in the future. It appears Playboy are using Naked.com as their chat host client and that is where the models and studios are logging on. I will have to ask them for a bit of info regarding their prices too! But regarding 5 points pay rates I have been given those already.

I mentioned I could find no information regarding pay on this site too so I took the time to email them through one of their contact forms, what with them having no real contact details on the site. I simply requested some details. Here is that email:

Hi

Sorry if I missed this previously but how much do models make in your rooms? I want to know the pay percentage the models take home and their actual per minute rates before I commit to anything.

I was also wondering how you pay your models? Is it direct bank transfer or something like paypal?

Thanks 


This is their response:


Hi London,

Thank you for your interested in working with our company. New models are typically paid between 21%-25% and that rate can be increased. That percentage equates to between $1.26 and $2.25 per minute (depending on chat mode). We pay via Payoneer, Paxum, Wire Transfer, and AlertPay for non-US models.

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate to contact us.

Kind regards,
Tori Sanders
Talent Executive
5 Points Model Management
Talent@5PointsModels.com
www.5PointsModels.com



She also listed a phone number but I wont pop that on here. To be fair her response was polite with an explanation regardless of the typo. Thank you for your response, Tori Sanders.

Sooooo.... 21-25%. That is... something... hardly anything in fact. They are taking 79-75% of your earnings ladies. Woohoo! Let's face it that is one bad pay percentage right there. Terrible, considering you can make 60% elsewhere.  But wait? I'm having a flashback to something they mentioned on the site...


Oh that's right the big dirty lie they put on their scam prevention page here! Apparently you don't have to worry that anyone is taking a percentage of your earnings... except the 79% that 5 Points modelling will take of course. And you will be paid one of the highest pay rates in the industry... except 20-25% is one of the lowest take home rates and 60% is the highest I have found so far. And if we are even talking per minute $1.26 does not compare to $3.00.

I questioned them regarding this and got an awesome response. I include this to allow you to judge for yourself how they come across as a company. This was my email:

Hi Tori

Thank you for your response. I would just like you to clarify something I noticed on your web page entitled "Scam Prevention" Specifically this phrase:  "Join our elite team of models and never worry about whether or not you’ll be paid, or whether someone is taking a percentage of your earnings. You'll be paid one of the highest pay rates in the industry, on time, every time!"

Now please excuse me if I am misunderstanding you, but I find the sentence "Never worry about whether someone is taking a percentage of your earnings" incredibly misleading due to the fact that actually, 5 points are taking up to 79% of my earnings. Do you not agree? I really think you should change the wording.

I would also disagree that your cam studio is paying one of the best rates in the industry. 25% is a pittance compared to the sites that offer 60% and 40% with plenty of traffic. Again I find your claims misleading and as you arent forthcoming with actual pay rates and information unless requested. I feel you shouldnt make these claims without evidence as you are misleading potential models.


You also state that you are opening doors for models into the adult industry and would like more info on how you actually do this as there is no info or success stories on your site regarding women who have made a successful transition thanks to your intervention. You also dont mention if you will help build model websites, help with social networking etc like a real agent would do. Do you have any info on whether or not you offer these services. To me it seems you are just a cam studio really at the moment.


Would love to hear you thoughts on this or hear that you will consider changing your wording. I look forward to receiving the info I requested also.


Kind regards



I think I worded that pretty fairly, don't you? Anyway this time I got a response from Jason Garrison, Tori's line manager. I think he was a bit pissed off because he seems a bit short with me. Can't think why... I'm going to insert my own dissection of his email in red as we go and you can judge for yourself


London,

It sounds like you already have your mind made up, so I won’t spend too much time going into great detail. I will tell you that our wordage was well thought out and it entirely accurate. Let me clear up your misinterpretation of our wordage:
1.       We never claim to pay out the highest percentage. However, our per minute rates are definitely the highest in the industry, (MFC pays $3 per min so your $1.26 is not the highest by a considerable leap...) higher than other top ranking sites such as LiveJasmin, Cams, and Streamate. Going for the highest percentage isn’t always the wisest decision. After all, would you rather be paid 100% of $1, or 60% of $2? (Neither, I would rather be paid 100% of my $3 a minute by signing up direct with MFC) The only site that I know of that offers a higher per minute rate AND actually has traffic is MyFreeCams, where you have to perform in open chat for hundreds of non-paying customers in hopes some will tip you. (Oooooooh a begrudging admission there is a higher paying site, but wait isn't that a contradiction of what you said at the start of this paragraph, Jason? I thought you were definitely the highest in the industry.) If you know of any other sites, please enlighten me.
2.       We don’t take a cut of your earnings. What the customer pays and what the model earns are two entirely separate things. No site pays 100% of what the customer pays. We pay models the same as if they were to go direct through the host company since the host company pays us a higher percentage than direct models simply for lightening their work load and signing up models in bulk. (I will assume this is true. So that makes sense. I have of course contacted the sites directly for pay rates to confirm this is not just bullshit and I am waiting to hear back.)
3.       We never claim to be an agent in any aspect (Except when you call yourself a modelling agency all over your website?) (in fact doing so would be illegal) (Well I think you may be breaking the law then, Jason, Good for you!). We’re a management company which contracts with agents in the industry to provide our models with additional opportunities. Those agents may create sites, negotiate contracts, social network, etc. (That last part seems like a cop out. Didn't offer me any examples of times they have furthered a girls career, even with these "contract agents")

My advice – If you’ve found better opportunities, don’t pass them up. Stop wasting your energy analyzing our site word by word and putting your own spin on the information contained therein. (Oooooooh sorry Jason! Excuse me for wanting to question your absolute power! I'm just a simple model so of course I should hand over all my personal details without asking any questions at all! Silly me! I will stop wasting my time on your shitty site now you have given me all the info I need) If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me directly.

Regards,

Jason Garrison
Senior Talent Executive
5 Points Model Management


I think he likes me!

Think of that email what you will. I can appreciate what he is saying, but I still personally feel they are misleading. I feel he contradicts himself a lot because he knows that their site isn't really wording their stuff properly and he thinks that by chatting a load of shitty jargon at me I will just accept what he is saying.

Seriously one of these days I swear we need to form a cam girl union! Then these sites could not get away with taking our personal bank details, names, addresses, social security before divulging pay rates. They make it as hard as possible for girls to get clear answers and contact them and I don't think its okay. I think pay percentages would be better and this shit could not keep happening to us. Could you imagine what would happen if every cam girl went on strike? They would lose billions of dollars in just a single day. Maybe then they might consider giving us a better percentage. It's not like they provide you with health care or other benefits.

Just a thought for now but who knows where that may take us...

So in summary this is a prime example of a studio masquerading as something more. They are a pile of lies and bullshit and give you a crappy pay rate and percentage as the cherry on top. They are another site with the Official London Jones - They Suck Ass Seal of Approval. I am going to seriously need to create one of those for real one day! Even though really it's a seal of disapproval. A seal of approval for sucking ass is a bit of an oxymoron... Regardless, I digress!

They are not a doorway into the adult industry and if you are serious about getting into porn or adult modelling you need to get in touch with proper modelling agencies and adult film makers. Camming is a start, great experience and great fun, but you can't just expect a real porn career to fall into your lap.

Don't let these charlatans get their hooks in and hands up who wants to start a union!

I think charlatans is my favourite word of the day. Say it with me now...

Charlatans.

Much love and peace

London

x

19 comments:

  1. lol oh wow that is so much bullshit they tried to feed you

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  2. I know tell me about it. I don't normally go so in depth on camsites or studios, but then most aren't making the claims that 5 points have.

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  3. Thank you for posting this!! I'm just starting out (and I LOVE it so far) and I will STAY AWAY from them!

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  4. Glad you are loving it Natalia! :) xx

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  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  6. Lol, ohhh Jason.
    He's actually my agent, and he is helpful and nice, I really can't say anything negative about him... (He's actually super nice) althoughhhhh I'm extremely unimpressed with the payout percentage I'm getting.
    When I first started camming at the end of 2010 I was doing a lot of research on different sites. I personally would be a lot more cautious of internetmodeling.com (They recruit for streamate)
    They do have a higher payout, but their agents are unusually slow at processing forms. It took them an unheard of 6 weeks to get an account up and running. They also use paypal, which forbids transactions of an adult nature in their terms and conditions. (You forfeit your earnings if paypal discovers this)
    Anyway, back to f4f et al.
    I find a lot of what you have to say very agreeable, their pay percentage is shit. They generate a high rate of traffic in my opinion. Definitely not as much as MFC, but you only ever have 100-200 models on at any time, as opposed to the 1000 you have to compete against on other sites.
    I do however think that the wording of their website is very misleading. Generally, standard payouts are between 30-45% on other sites, and I was expecting somewhere in that range as they DO say "one of the highest". Needless to say, I was appalled by the 25%.
    I will say that I do make very good money here, enough to pay the rent, etc and live very comfortably. I understand a LOT of models have trouble getting a base clientele set up on flirt though. It took me about 3 weeks to get relationships with customers. (As we know, that's where the real money is).
    I have considered working on different sites, although I find the model community there SO supportive and friendly, too much so to give up. The top models there are always willing to help newer models, and that's definitely something unique to VS. (Maybe other cam studios as well that I haven't heard of??)
    I really do believe that a cam model who does well on one site, will do well on any site she decides to go with. It takes a certain type of person to be successful in this industry and I think a lot of people have the misconception that this is a get-rich-easy deal, but it's really not.
    Just my two cents, happy camming !
    xo

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  7. Hey Ruby

    Thank you for your two cents. They are really appreciated and you are totally right that being a cam girl is not a "get-rich-easy" deal.

    I think if a model makes bank on any site then of course they should absolutely stay there :)

    Internet modelling worked their asses off for me so the only negative review i can give them is in pay percentage and the 6 week application stuff which I experienced. 20% is disgusting. I was devastated when a customer tipped me $10 and I only got $2 of it! And 6 weeks is needless waiting! They do hardly anything in that time lol.

    As they pay you as an independent contractor for an entertainment company paypal leave them alone and they have been running with it for years. They do have other payment options though. I personally think Paypal would rather have the business with all this money so they don't go looking too hard. They were trying to stop a lot of the independent cam models who weren't getting taxed etc.

    I'm glad to hear VS is a good community. (I'm still waiting to hear back from them directly on rates.) I have found MFC to be the same. Never met a nasty model and have built up good relationships with several UK girls. I've even found the customers to be helpful its such a strong community. It's very different to a lot of chat sites like Jason said, but in my opinion its good.

    I cant ever dis MFC as I make $800/$1000 a week there if I do a proper week as opposed to maybe $300/$400 on IM. I also respect how upfront they are with models on their wiki page explaining their payment system. Just makes the whole relationship easier.

    I never have any personal beef with any studio or modelling site, but I will write posts showing their rates and their attitudes to girls who question them. I think I picked on 5 points a bit more because of their site wording and subsequent awesome email. Generally these posts are short because I just give the rates and whether or not its a decent cut however my new BFF Jason helped me stretch it out a little ;) I hope he is keeping well!

    If you are happy with the VS community just stay there are ignore any future posts I may or may not make and hopefully you will continue to contribute to this community as well. We need as many opinions as possible to help people make the best choices. It's good to hear from people working across different sites.

    I hope to hear more of your articulate views in the future :)

    xx

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  8. Aw, I will definitely be reading more of your blog in the future! I'm so glad I found your page, you have such a great style of writing!
    I've thought about going to MFC, one thing I really like about their policy is that you can play music in your chatroom.
    VS doesn't allow this, except for the royalty free music they provide... which sounds like a terrible mix between elevator music and old school porn soundtracks. *Puke*
    I think there are a lot of pros and cons to working with any website and everyone has to kind of find their niche as to what suits them most. Sorry if anything I said came off as an attack, I definitely didn't mean for it to sound that way :D
    PS. Totally awesome about the PayPal thing. The tidbit I posted up there is actually something I remembered reading on 5 points scam alert page, haha apparently one more way to swindle models into working with them. I personally wish I had signed up directly with VS instead of through a studio, but hell, it's whatever now.
    :) Looking very forward to reading more of your posts, woot !

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  9. No offence at all :) I love open discussion. Think it is best to get everyones view out there.

    That music does sound a bit pukey lol. I suppose in a way VS media are being more "professional" than other sites in case they get in trouble for girls playing tracks.

    The niche thing is right though like you say. Some girls arent going to suit MFC if they can't handle the way the site works and may well make more money elsewhere on site with more privates or places that are fetish specific. Sounds like you have found a great place to work for you. Nothing wrong with test driving other sites though ;) I'm thinking of trying out ifriends as I think their take home is 40-50%

    London

    x

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  10. I had wanted to do webcam modeling with this company, but they are pretty difficult to get into. I was wondering how much (if I did ever get to join the site and model) I would make because I really need to save up about 1000 dollars and to be honest, I haven't found a job anywhere and I really need the money now, so I thought this would be a good way to help me.

    I have a question though...do you have any tips for new girls who start webcam modeling? I'm pretty shy, but I don't mind opening up on the web to strangers, lol. I just wouldn't know how to start.

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  11. Hi Tracy

    Sorry for the delay in my response. I have a whole advice section for new models with a tab on the top on my blog called Advice Index with all of my advice posts.

    I personally wouldnt recommend 5 points modelling to you. I would suggest MyGirlFund.com or MyFreeCams.com, or pretty much anywhere else to be honest!

    If you need any personal advice feel free to contact me at londoncamgirl@gmail.com

    Hope that helps you Tracy! Good luck!

    Much Love

    London

    x

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  12. thanks for posting this, so I decided to give this a try and i didnt find out how much i made til I actually started...not even like 3 cents per credit...and we have to work even harder just to make it higher? total crap and scam ! I cant believe that, so i stopped after the first time camming on there lol I am on MFc and even though it slowed down i still made more than 50 % ! 5points was like dead and didnt have many prems in the room!

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  13. THANK YOU so much for this article!!!! I have been working for 5 points models for the past two weeks and just figured out yesterday that they are a studio and not the webcam site! WTF!!! I was initially tipped off by the 23.3% commission...something seemed a bit fishy about that...then calculating how much I am charged out at and how much I receive...I was floored!

    Right now I am in the process of emailing VS media aka Flirt4free to see if I can have an account with them, independent of a studio. Have you heard back from them yet? I don't even know if its possible but I would like to fire 5 points and be hired directly under VS, as I do like the customers there and the community.

    Please let me know if you have heard anything back! Thank you so much for this very very important blog, its time girls knew their rights instead of being used to make other people rich for doing nothing!

    Thank you!!!!!!!

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  14. I joined this website the other day before finding YOUR blog here. Have I made a grave error? Am I locked into anything without realizing??

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  15. No fortunately you are not tied into anything. Just don't go back there. You're account with them will end up inactive. You can contact them and say you are leaving but many sites automatically delete old profiles that have been inactive a certain amount of time.

    Don't fret those scam artists cant do anything to you :)

    x

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  16. hi,
    i am lucy, transgender from thailand. i might be a bit different to some of you girls but i hope you can help me. i am on LJ and F4F (through 5points stupidly). i would love to go sites like myfreecams but they not have transgender section. i would like to work for F4F but hate that i signed up with 5points. 23.3% commission. did you get your email back from VS about their percentage. what do i have to do to keep working for F4F but directly. thank you for your help. you can see my profile as ladyboylucy on LJ. i hope you like me and can help me.
    thank you
    lucy

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  17. Hi,
    I am a recruiter for IM and I Love your blog and I get it about the things you say about 5 points and IM. My question is would one be considered an independent if they went wit a cam site directly vs the studio? My next? ?? Is pay. You mentioned simlucasting the models does that mean they get money x # of times for one show even though they are getting a lower %? I know IM claims to do it Who else does thatz? Why do you think IM takes so long to process a models application? I just started with them and I had one process in 2-3 days is that normal and what paperwork do you have to sign and send back? Does all studios do that.?
    Also, I have a suggestions for readers/models. Instead of giving out your personal bank info for DP WHY NOT USE WESTERN UNION DEBIT CARD?
    They off direct deposit and there are no fees to access your money. It only cost USD 5.00 to load any amount.
    I have been around the adult business for a long time as it so exciting and I am an advocate for human rights and I will not be or get involved with people who fu%& over other people.
    So asking also what do you really think about IM besides slow processing time that's is he most I have heard about them.

    Thanks

    Jay

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